Ego invokes the fear of rejection, which means shutting down instead of opening up. Looking at this fear from outside of it (instead of identifying with it) reveals it as a parasitic meme. Vulnerability is opening up to let Life in: healthy wholeness.
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Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate as a parasitic meme—yes! Well described. We have the opportunity to choose healthy wholeness instead. In choosing Life, we are never vulnerable. Gassho
Never saw impatience with indecisiveness or inaction through this lens. It provides distance enough to understand it’s a system operating on everyone rather than something wrong with me after all these years of practice. What a welcome relief! R/L Gassho
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Yes! What you’re pointing out for all of us is a process of buying into ego’s “pet obsessions.” We can see that egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is a “system operating on everyone,” but these two or three “flaws” are really real and they really are what’s wrong with me. Actually, no! All the “something wrong/not enough” crapola is just that, and there’s nothing real or personal about it. What a welcome relief indeed! Gassho
Seeing Eight-like control-mania at work after a long day of vacation sightseeing with adult daughters. Yelling at my cranky companions, “Get over it! You have no resilience! “ Ego had me so intolerant (afraid) of my own “weakness “ (normal fatigue) that I couldn’t even allow it in “my own. “ R/L
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Ah, ego is no respecter of even our most cherished relationships, is it? Those kids? Weaklings! They need to buck up and get on! Good to let everyone off the hook. Gassho
This week I saw how wanting to be seen as strong kept me from connection. "I" was hiding out. The Mentor encouraged me to express vulnerability to my friends and in doing so, this human received unconditional love from the outside and inside! My body went from rigidity to fluidity. R/L
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What a lovely transition—from rigidity to fluidity—all accomplished by choosing to protect the human being instead of protecting egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. Great choice! Gassho
The first few weeks, egocentrickarmiccondition/selfhate told me “people who wrote in they didn’t see that enneatype in themselves aren’t trying. “ I nodded along. I am humbled. 8 has been hard to find. So far, I see a tendency to judge who “deserves” my compassion, even in just seeing a headline. R/L
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“Humbled” is a marvelous place to be, isn’t it? Our greatest spiritual heroes showed us humility at every turn. That’s the quality that keeps us open, keeps us looking, keeps us remembering that “I don’t know,” and we don’t even want “I” to know! Well done. Gassho
I am an 8 when egocentrickarmicconditioning-self hate takes charge. It will challenge supervisors, will attempt to wrestle power and control. It wants to be rule. It is mistrusting having been burned in so many relationships. Struggle to discern when is it ego or a sincere me who needs control. Gassho R/L.
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Oh, my, that’s actually an easy one: There is no such thing as a “sincere me who needs control.” Control is an illusion and so is “me.” That’s the best part of what we get to see by practicing awareness. “Me” or “I” is not one thing but an illusion of a “one thing” created when an incalculable number of processes interacting simultaneously make it seems as if there’s a constant “me” “doing” “this.” (Lots of quotes and all necessary.) For those of us choosing freedom from suffering, the wise move always is to go with “it’s ego wanting control.” Gassho
8’s conditioning has need to control personal space. Perceives privacy as being infringed upon; becomes irritated; others in the way. Falling for this bamboozle causes difficulties interacting. Noticing this, so can breathe, let-go into Authenticity’s compassionate presence and lovingkindness. Either let it be or when possible ask politely for space. R/L
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“… ask politely for space.” What a notion! That sort of thing is absolutely foreign to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, and egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate wants to keep it that way. In an irritated conversation in the head that precludes interaction, that’s ego’s chosen method. Breathing, turning attention to presence, gives us that compassionate option. Much happier, isn’t it? Gassho
Yes to (attempts to) control people, physical and emotional environments to perpetuate the illusion of safety. Yes to independence and anti-dependence. Yes to decisive leadership and quick action, which can also include impulsivity. Yes to championing the underdog/less fortunate. Didn’t realize this human exhibits these “8” tendencies. R/L
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I know I keep coming to this, but it is good to see, isn’t it? Conditioning likes for us to have two ways of talking about things—the way you are and the way I am. You tend to exhibit unfortunate traits, such as controlling and impulsive, whereas, for me, it’s just a matter of tending to like an orderly environment, part of being a decisive leader. When we get a description from someone with no investment in protecting anyone’s ego, we get much clearer, fairer mirrors to look into. None of this has anything to do with “typing” ourselves; it has to do with using various mirrors that allow a more comprehensive picture. We hear that in a nonseparate reality we are at one with all that is, however we’re deeply programmed to believe ego when it screams that we are “this” and not “that,” and therein lies what’s wrong with us! Gassho
I am an 8. The description brought back what feels like distant memories. Behaviors that feel less familiar since I started practicing with Sangha. Seeing how all the types play out in me. Feel grateful and affirmed in how practice reduces the clinging to personality and frees the soul. R/L
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Having seen all of that, you can safely let go of identifying as an 8, yes? Those identifies really don’t help anything other than ego. Recognizing when we’re thinking or behaving in particular ways that have been identified as 8 or Aries or first born or New Yorker or SJ or future thinker or whatever can assist to bring us to conscious awareness, but that’s the end of it! Technically, we’re not an anything; as a famous Buddhist noted, “From the beginning no-thing is.” Very relaxing. Gassho
I am fiercely independent and recognize that I resist being indebted to anyone. I am frequently standing up for the underdog. I think I can connect with people well initially, but have difficulty maintaining close relationships/friendships.
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These are good tendencies to bring conscious, compassionate awareness to, aren’t they? These are not “identities” we want to “own.” They’re traits, characteristics, that’s all. They’re not personal, primarily because there’s no “person” to possess them. They’re more like habits. We notice habits we have and, very likely, begin a process of letting go the ones that are obviously not serving us. Then we begin to see that even with the ones that seem to serve us we want to be at choice rather than operating robotically. Gotta ask: Do you have an R/L practice? It’s a phenomenally efficient way to make one’s way into the clarity of center. Gassho
We both are good fighters. Conditioning trades blows, then retreats to both corners. I fear one of us will leave the ring. egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate plays the righteousness and shame game. Through practice, Authenticity burns down the arena and there we are, aware of shared connection with All That Is. R/L
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Oh, so much happier! Ego loves to fight—you don’t have to be an Enneatype 8 to have an ego yanking you around from fight to fight. Eights tend to be more out in the open with the fighting, but fighting is fighting, whether everyone is smacked around or just the beleaguered authentic human being subjected to the battles. Gassho
Noticing a cycle that happens when I date: attachment to an outcome ("hope") -> disappointment (delay, setback) -> hurt feelings -> idea to reject the other person -> feel rush of power, "clarity," self-righteousness, desire to act immediately. I want to pause, sit with disappointment, let next right action arise, stay courageous and self-accepting. R/L
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Yes, you are employing the snip, snip power of the karma nippers. This is very good. We often see karma depicted as a wheel. It rolls inexorably on through suffering, lifetime after suffering lifetime. Then, extraordinarily fortunate human beings practice and practice, and slowly the wheel comes to a halt. More lifetimes of fortunate people practicing and the wheel is now turning away from suffering, toward freedom. That’s the team you’re on, pausing, sitting, accepting, attentive for Life’s wisdom to guide you. You are ending ego’s urgent desire, snipping away and ending the karma. Well done! Gassho
can really relate to desiring independence. freedom from suffering is the ultimate. working on behalf of those left out in our society is also something I've done for some years. conditioning tries to sell me on what society says is worthwhile, but I've been able to see through that by practicing being present.
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Excellent. The 8 in me wants to ask if I can sell you on some capital letters for the beginning of sentences. Helps the one attempting to follow what people are saying so as to offer the best response available. Do you have a Recording and Listening practice? Gassho
As an Enneatype 6 (fear based) I didn’t expect to find much in common with Enneatype 8 (fearless leader). Did relate to a number of the 8 characteristics and found it truly reassuring that all of us have common touch points with each of the other Enneagram types. R/L
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It is reassuring to realize that we all have everything in common. (We are one.) It’s important to get that the characteristics of a particular enneatype are what we are NOT. Those are the dominant tendencies we are most conditioned to, but that’s not the same as that’s what we are. Here’s the importance of getting that: If I identify myself as a fear-based person, I will constantly be looking for fear. I’ll be seeing fear in all I say and do. Everything in my life will be run past the belief that who I am is a fear-based person. We don’t want to do that. See what I mean? We want to do what we are “designed” to do—avail ourselves of every human trait as the moment invites. Gassho
A habit is to think my partner and I are in a fight, that she's an 'enemy.' Authenticity doesn't think that, but ego wants to take it in that direction: be guarded, find fault, be "right." I have to go against that habit and actively remember Love. Love feels better!!! R/L
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Yes, Love does feel better, but not to ego. Love is death to the ego, and the ego is going to fight with everything it’s got to keep love at bay. That’s what you’ve been seeing, right? Ego doesn’t want love and only wants a partner in order to have at least one live-in enemy! You and your partner can gang up on egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, put it out of the relationship, by both of you bringing conscious awareness to choosing love. The good news though is that only one person in a relationship needs to make that choice. Gassho
Okay I'm ALL eight traits too with more hidden underneath sevens addictions sprinkled by all. Egocentrickarmicconditioning/self hate cheers, leads to confusion, and says 5 lbs overweight too! Confusion is trigger to R/L. Mentor consoles to find good enough, balance, middle and grey. Redirect to selfcare to family to others. R/L
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All that and 5 lbs. overweight too! Outrageous! Unacceptable! You might as well quit. Yes, do that. Quit. Quit paying any attention whatsoever to that nasty egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate! You have the Mentor. You and the Mentor can happily-ever-after embrace family and all beings. No reason not to! Gassho