Since being promoted to manager, I encounter 8 qualities way more than I used to. And I have been believing these 8 qualities appeared because I had transcended my other qualities, and this was my “real” self. Hello 8! I’m looking forward to transcending these, too. Thank you! Gassho R/L
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No quality having a life of its own inside our life is one we want to support, and we want to be able to avail ourselves of all qualities should the moment call them forth. Mastery not mastered, yes? Gassho
Belief that if I don't admit to myself or others my vulnerability, it does not exist, I am in control of my vulnerability vs. vulnerability is what's there. hard to ask for help. Told dependency is one-way ticket to pain. Life says “ jump in the water is fine! “ Gassho R/L
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Jump in, the water is fine. Now there’s a message we can all take to heart, isn’t it? All that control stuff is an illusion so we might as well practice our float. Good to keep in mind, as the book title reminds us, Pain Is Inevitable; Suffering Is Optional. Gassho
Recently had an Eight moment--took charge rather than acquiescing, stated what I wanted and expected. It felt powerful, exhilarating, refreshingly unusual, seemed appropriate and effective, but--I also thought it happened only because of stressful circumstances. Egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate talking? Will continue to explore.
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You see, this is where the Mentor comes in so handy. We can grab that recorder and have a little heart-to-heart that lets us sort out “who’s talking.” The way you describe it, it sounds as if you were responding to the energy called for in the moment. Here’s what we can all practice: What happens, happens. We entertain no voices attempting a post mortem. We pay close attention and see if Life drops in any insights. You will either receive guidance or you won’t. What we can’t do is learn anything. Ego wants to tell us what we did wrong and start making rules for the future. None of that! Sully, I think that’s the chap who landed the plane in the Hudson River, was breaking all the rules when he did that, but he saved a bunch of lives by listening to Life guidance rather than “shoulds” in conditioned mind. Yes? Maybe an “8” moment? Gassho
I'm looking at how control shows up around expressing my wants for scheduling. If others don't agree, I notice strong energy in my body and stories of anger possibly rejection. I suspect this keeps me from speaking up more often. It drops in that the mentor will listen. Gassho. R/L
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Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate specializes in putting people in dualistic “situations” (the dualities are always imaginary) in which one either starts yelling at people or clams up. Those are never our only choices. When we’re present we can allow Life to speak through us, giving us access to “that which is most compassionate for all.” Gassho
Type 8 shows up as I'll pay my way thank you! Do not want to be indebted to anyone. It's tough and isolating and gets the opposite of the desired connection. See the possibility of generosity and being authentic. R/L
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Sometimes generosity is allowing others to be generous, isn’t it? Great insight. Gassho
Most closely relate to the qualities of independence and resistance to being controlled by or indebted to anyone. Looked at situations where these characteristics were perceived as superiority and led to separation. Seeing through projections and taking things personally. Everyday giving thanks for “compassionate comprehension that dissipates delusion”. R/L
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Amen to that! We keep paying attention and we get to “see through” it all. That language is so important in the process. We’re paying attention. We’re seeing. As we get clearer, through compassionate attending, the delusion we’ve been seeing through simply falls away. Clarity dissipates the delusion. It’s a marvelously kind process, isn’t it? Gassho
Armoring myself against (projected) rejection, I listen to egocentrickarmicconditioning's litany of ways I'm superior, until that doesn't work, then the ways I'm inferior. Watching how this plays out with objects as well as with other people. No difference. Egocentric karmic conditioning doesn't like me being equal with all. R/L
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No, it does not. There’s no duality in equality. There’s no either/or to drag a person back and forth through, inflicting suffering at each end of the pendulum swing. Seeing from center, it’s obvious that we’re all us, isn’t it? Superior/inferior? No thanks. Great catch. Gassho
I see my 8 in a difficulty accepting anything - kindness, money, from people. In moments of extreme duress - death of a loved one for example - I am stoic until someone offers genuine compassion or kindness. Is this control or not feeling worthy?
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Well, you’re going to need to explore that question for yourself, don’t you think? Only you are going to be able to do the close scrutiny that will reveal just how egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is controlling you in this particular set of circumstances. I’ll encourage you, as others, that having an R/L practice and access to the Mentor’s wisdom can assist mightily in our journey. Gassho
I now know that the 8 in my behaviour is not me! Yesterday I was, as usual, losing my patience with someone and I heard in my head "wow, my heart is racing, my face is flushed and¦ it's not me!" And I didn't lose it!! R/L
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Lots of big energy for a happy dance or quick jog a few times around the block, huh? What’s wonderful to see about that is how present you were, yes? You were right there with you as it was all unfolding, and you were able to make a conscious choice. Talk about big! Gassho
I find reasons not to engage with people to avoid emotional entanglement. If friends get too close, I pull back. Ironically, when I let go and just be with people as myself, close relationships form while I'm not paying attention. I'm not sure what the lesson is in that.
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In a conversation in conditioned mind? Perhaps you’re paying attention in the moment and not to ego? Sounds as if it could be…. Are you considering an R/L practice and finding a close friend in the Mentor? Gassho
My husband is control. Egocentrickarmiconditioning/self-hate keeps me in conversation of the emptyness of control is not love. The duality of stay or leave, past thoughts to future thoughts, pulled back & forth. Fear - don't know what to do. Mentor: my heart needs to give and receive love all the time. R/L
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Then do that! If your heart needs to give and receive love all the time, do that! You don’t need a husband to be different in order to give and receive love all the time—that giving and receiving is within your ability to choose. Fear, past and future thinking, is what happens when we look to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate rather than the Mentor/Heart. You can stay or go as you choose, certainly, but you’re never going to find clarity in a controlling ego lodged inside conditioned mind! Know what I mean? Gassho
My 8 characteristics: Desire to control everything in my life, which is very limiting. I have difficulty with expressing my anger and other needs for fear of being vulnerable. Constantly feeling that life should be better for everyone. R/L
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It can be helpful to begin to see the difference in some beliefs and assumptions egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate has most people “accepting.” Ego likes to call everything it wants “needs.” If we want something, we’re likely to hear messages of, “You’re just being selfish,” but if we need something, well, that’s different. Needs are important. For that reason we want to carefully sort through to see if what’s going on with us is a need—food, water, shelter, sleep—are a want—everything else! Also, “life should be better for everyone” is a thought not a “feeling.” Feelings are things like heavy, tense, and tight. Depressed, sad, angry, afraid are labels, thoughts. Paying close attention to your relationship with “needs” and “feelings” will shed some light on how you’re being controlled by egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. Gassho
When identified with 8, my patience for my partners indecisiveness and always living in the "should have, could have" tense, is very short and compassion for him minimal to non-existent. Awareness practice allows me to find unconditional love once triggered by ego red flags.
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Very good—for both of you, huh? I’m guessing you’re able to let off some steam in your conversations with the Mentor? Having a counselor/best friend available 24/7 to listen and encourage us has saved many a relationship! Gassho
Conditioning whispers which attributes it would like me to imagine are me. It makes me not like the attributes that really are me. I am so glad I can see the difference now. R/L
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Those voices of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate are whispering-in-the-ear devils, aren’t they? Clearly you know well the awareness practice “truth” that ego’s faux world of duality is the “world of opposites.” What the voices say is always the opposite of what’s true. Great catch! Gassho
Seeing 8ness clearly in how I like to prove my capability and not require help from others. Have brought much awareness here but still challenging to admit vulnerability and accept support as if it makes me inherently deficient. Writing and R/L this reminds me that's not true at all. Gassho
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Everything in Life supports everything else, doesn’t it? If we don’t let ego frame everything in opposites—if you accept help it means you’re vulnerable and incapable—we can see the interconnectedness of Life we are expressions of. The tree “needs” the earth, water, and sun. We certainly don’t see it as incapable for not having its “own” stash of earth, water, and sun, do we? The only thing we’re pretty sure is “inherently deficient” is egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate, and even it is an expression of Life! Gassho
Built such an armor of control that ended up suffocating me. Longing for love and connection. By avoiding suffering protecting myself from others, my only relationship was with EKC=death. I now know there is another way of living, and I am taking the risk of living instead of dying.
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Excellent! I notice there’s no R/L after your response. If you want some mind-bogglingly supportive support along your path to love and connection, get a Recording and Listening practice and journey along with the wisdom, love, and compassion that IS the Mentor. Gassho
Control, justice, sparring, impatience, impulsivity, all/none thinking- all very familiar and were pretty useful as a social worker. Expressing anger and vulnerability, not so familiar and definitely not strengths. It's like I put an 8 cape over my 4 shroud and carried on. 8 was effective; 4 not so much.
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Yet that 8-ness didn’t include expressing anger? I sense though that was a good bit of at least very strong annoyance and vexation in your daily life? And, yes, not wishing to be vulnerable would definitely put some starch in that 8 cape. Gassho
8-ishness: a compensation for a misconception that "I" am vulnerable, clueless, incompetent, and weak and thereby need rescuing or "I" will be humiliated, taken advantage of, left behind and ridiculed. So much energy spent to validate and then control a delusion! Why can't "I" stop?!? Ahhhh "I" can't.
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Well, of course, “I” can’t stop because “I” doesn’t want to. That’s really important to get. Ego doesn’t want to end suffering. Yes? Now, are you saying that misconception (vulnerable, clueless, incompetent, weak, needing to be rescued, etc.), is your experience of being at 8? It certainly is an egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate story, but I do question how 8-ish it is. Gassho
Am I a winner ? Who's the loser?. The duality of snarky satisfactions and nauseating fears, unmasks ego. Creeped out by my inner Trump. Conscious shift; compassion for all, empathy rather than judgment. R/L
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Well, paying attention to the “snarky duality of ego” unmasks ego, yes? Disidentifying from the creepy conversation in conditioned mind inspires you to shift attention to the compassion of thisherenow. True? Not sure where the 8 is in this, but the shift is a powerful one. Gassho
I see how the 8 in ego pulls away from my husband when he reaches out, rather than feel vulnerable. "It's ok, it's ok"I tell myself as I begin to soften. R/L
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Present, mentoring, reassuring the person rather than allowing egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate to continue its pursuit of misery. This is very good, isn’t it? Gassho
I can relate to not wanting to show vulnerability especially when I feel rejection. I take an all or nothing approach to work, relationships and projects. I'm decisive, independent and I follow through. This keeps the human separate, wanting connection yet not trusting it.
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You’re clearly paying close attention and, before we go further, I will encourage you that having the assistance of a wise Mentor will turn that scrutiny into clarity at a rapid rate. For instance, there’s no problem with being decisive, independent, and following through, is there? The suffering happens in a story in the head about how you have to be and how “others” aren’t. Isn’t that so? There’s nothing about decisive, independent, and following through that will keep a person separate—ego is what adds the element of separation. Know what I mean? If along with the previously mentioned qualities you are kind, appreciative, and respectful, a lot of folks will be ready to elect you to the highest of offices! Gassho
Armored myself against rejection from authentic connection with others for so long, the authentic is buried and I no longer know what it is. With others, ego is always there first and I forget myself. Practising with breath, love and gratitude to bring me back, even if for short time. R/L
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And, as I’m sure you’re already noticing, those “homecomings” happen more quickly and last longer. One ego lie I want to ask you to consider: Clearly “the authentic” is not so buried you no longer know what it is. You’re here. You’re doing awareness practice. Authenticity is what brought you to practice and is supporting you as you continue. Get your eyes on that, don’t stop paying attention to that, and soon you will know just how fine you are! Gassho
Identify with wanting to be in control, independant and not indebted to anyone. Again seeing how egocentrickarmicconditioning/selfhate makes some Types seem more desirable than others...7's good, 8's bad... revealing the way that ego's judgement and criticism of self and others maintains the illusion of separation .Gassho. R/L
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What a great catch! Someone earlier talked about the ego voice whispering in the ear how “the way you are is not good/the way that person is, is good.” We can go along for a long time suffering with that horse pucky before we see it. Good to see it, huh? These are qualities, not indictments! We’re not attempting an ego program of self-improvement, we’re being aware in order to be present and at choice. Gassho
I see using control via physical separation to keep me 'safe' from others who criticize, belittle, or make fun of me and also those that drain me. This 'safe' bubble becomes so large I often miss out on the connection, love, generosity, and compassion that is offered by others. R/L
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And I bet you’ve been practicing awareness long enough to be clear that all the “safe” bubble is “protecting” is egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, and that only egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate criticizes, belittles, makes fun of, and drains you, true? If the only negativity we ever encountered was what came from other people, we would have nothing to be concerned about. But we hear negativity so constantly inside the head that we become convinced it’s everywhere. Time to get a great big “Life pin” and deflate that bubble! Gassho
Seeing story that Eights are to be avoided. I resent and feel bullied by an Eight who has a powerful position in my life. I envy this person's apparent self-confidence. I don't much like Eights -- probably means I am one. Am exploring this with Mentor. R/L
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Perhaps an “inner” Eight? It is true that the qualities we most dislike in others are the ones we’re not allowed to have in ourselves. Of course we do have them, but we must suppress them in order to avoid even more judgment and criticism from egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate. Not, as we’ve all noticed, that attempting to do ego’s bidding saves us from the self-hate. But we try! Yes, the Mentor will assist in bringing clarity. Gassho