Enneagram Class 8

CLASS 8 FINAL

Wanting/having strength, independence, and non-indebtedness feel like protection/armoring.  Difficulty saying no except to social conventions. Attention notices "injustice" generally - especially sadness and intolerance/impatience for cruelty/harm to animals, children - all vulnerable beings. Huge gratitude for practice! Gassho /R/L.

++++++++++++++++++++++

It’s helpful, isn’t it, to bring conscious awareness to all qualities and characteristics, knowing we can be at choice about their expression. From a place of choice—conscious, compassionate awareness—strength, independence, a lack of debt, and an intention “not to lead a harmful life nor to encourage others to do so” can be part of our endeavor to find “the place that is most compassionate to all.” Those same qualities and characteristics “in the hands of” egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate will only ever perpetuate suffering. Gassho

 

"Weak is unworthy." Once lived 24/7 in the karmic belief that life was an endurance test to be survived. Slowly, slowly, this karma is being worn away, revealing more and more of the wisdom of the heart and a profoundly deep sense of connection and gratitude. R/L Gassho

++++++++++++++++++++++

What a lovely articulation of how awareness practice works. It’s a step by conscious step process, isn’t it? As Joko Beck said it, “We don’t let go karma, we wear it out.” As long as it happens, that’s what we’re grateful for! Gassho

 

I become eightish when I drive. I see bad drivers as bullies who need to be taken down a notch to save the innocent others. I am tempted to do stupid things to make things right. The shell of the car keeps me from intimacy or empathy with others. Gassho

++++++++++++++++++++++

Driving seems to make a lot of folks eightish, doesn’t it? At least the “decisive leader” part. Not sure how many drivers have as a primary concern saving the innocent from bullies. I hope there’s some of that concern for others involved, and that it’s not just a “survival of the fittest” being played out on the roads. Listening to recordings of how we choose to be can assist us NOT to join the insane fray and add our craziness to the bullying. Gassho

 

I recognize 8’s unwillingness to admit vulnerability. A defiant, “I can do it by myself/me against the world” attitude. Noticing that authenticity is acknowledging needs. Vulnerability is scary to ego -there’s no place for it to hide. Being vulnerable is actually a tender place. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Exactly so. Ego wants isolation and separation, not connection. Not sure that authenticity is acknowledging needs as much as that authenticity has no boundaries. Oneness is not made up of me/you, but of we/us. There’s no place for ego in we/us so it erects boundaries. HERE is a very tender place, and in that tender HERE there is no vulnerability. Gassho

 

The mentor has helped me accept my vulnerability and to show me how to love myself unconditionally. She has helped me to participate and communicate with others openly and wholeheartedly from a place of love and to let go. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

I’m betting part of what you’re seeing is that in Unconditional Love there is no “me” and no “vulnerability.” True? In Unconditional Love there’s just Unconditional Love! From HERE, a synonym for Unconditional, there’s nothing wrong, nothing missing, nothing lacking, nothing left out…. Love and let go. Love and let be. Very good! Gassho

 

My boss (an 8) seems like an alien to me. But the idea of control certainly rings clear to me. I see in myself certain conditioned behaviors that reflect a desperate grasp to try to maintain (the illusion of) control. It's great to talk about it. R/L. Gassho

++++++++++++++++++++++

Projection really is one of our most marvelous awareness practice tools. Your 8 boss seems like an alien to you. What are the qualities and characteristics of that alien? Make a comprehensive list. Go into detail. Then “own” those qualities. Yes? There are ways we’re allowed to be and ways we are not allowed to be, but the fact that we’ve been conditioned not to be certain ways does not mean we are not those ways! I know you know what I mean. Repression and expression are not opposites; they’re two ends of a continuum. Gassho

 

I want to create a Bridgewalk fundraising team, and inviting people feels vulnerable - egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate says "they'll reject you, so don't ask." I'm seeing that it's ego that's rejecting my desire to participate in this way, and it's ego's control I'd preserve by armoring up and staying hidden away with it. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

WELL DONE! That’s the whole deal right there. Substitute anything you want to do that threatens ego for “BridgeWalk fundraising team,” and you can see you’ve cracked the code. You want to participate with Life in some way. “No, no, no,” screams ego. Then the voices follow up with why you should believe and go with ego rather than Life. If that’s what you do, ego wins. Ego controls you and makes you choose it over Life. Great insight!  Gassho

 

Control shows around basic need, food and sleep.  Identity  thinks about and prepares food, which is a great gift and limiting if not open to the moment and what connection is offering.  Sleep, navigating relational habits, needs different,  navigating kindness over control, connection over separation.   R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, when in the grip of ego’s control, we have no ability to choose kindness or connection. That’s where practice serves us. As we practice presence, we’re more able to be HERE and make the choices that allow us to keep opening to Life connections. Plus, we get to enjoy more those delicious aspects of living called food and sleep! Gassho

 

Moralistic sparing and anger were the hallmarks of my affective style for many years. My egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate denied any vulnerability. Happy to notice that this happens less these days and remembering that egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate can pull me back there when I indulge the voices. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Good to remember, too, that we don’t want to “own” egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. It doesn’t belong to us; it’s something that happened to us. And, yes, we must never get lulled into a belief that “those egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate days are behind me.” That day, as far as we can tell, will simply never come!  Gassho

 

I got rejected again, says egocentrickarmicconditioning/self hate. When I buy the story of rejection (or that it's possible), there is brusqueness and tense protection of self. Letting go of the story brings relaxation, ease, and ego's scrambling. Lots of sensations. The exploration continues, gently, with the human. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Very good! As we get clearer that everyone is sailing their own little ship, we can realize just about nothing anyone else says or does has anything to do with us. Oh, good grief, Toto, we’re not the center of the universe after all! Being able to watch the sensations without believing the stories is just plain fascinating, isn’t it? Gassho

 

Wish I was an eight! The characteristic I sometimes share is not reaching out to others because I am afraid they don't like me or don't really want to spend time with me. Feel very "weak" lately and like I need to pull myself together before seeking others' company. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

What you need to do (if I may be so bold) is STOP listening to and believing bogus stories spun by hateful voices in conditioned mind! That’s really all you need to do. There’s no “pull myself together” that needs to happen. You’re just fine, and nothing will prove that to you quite as quickly as getting with the Mentor in thisherenow. Okay? I would not lie to you. Gassho

 

This human hasn't made a new friend in years. My heart longs for connection but ego-as-gatekeeper lets almost no one through. The guaranteed hurt of isolation is preferred to phantom 'unbearable' hurt of rejection. Better still if human despairs in seeing this dynamic, rather than experiencing connection directly in thisherenow. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, you’re putting that in the rear view mirror, aren’t you? What a load of horse pucky! Ego is a really, really bad “friend,” isn’t it? Get rid of it! If you buy granola instead of corn flakes, should the corn flakes feel suicidal? If you prefer a poodle to a Labrador, should all labs fall into a pit of low self-esteem? What the heck are we talking about here? There are 7 billion plus human beings on this planet, and I get talked into staying home with a hateful, nasty voice in the head because all those 7 billion plus people are sure to reject me if I give them the slightest chance! Hogwash! Yes? Get out here and give us a chance to love you!  Gassho

 

Friends flaked on plans, the tattoo appointment got cancelled, so ego says "be annoyed...they're so unreliable...you can't trust...be disappointed...this will ruin your day." If I'd anticipated/controlled better, somehow, egocentrickarmicconditioning tells me I'd never be disappointed.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah, well it’s a lying sack of crapola, isn’t it? That’s why we don’t want to be in relationship with it! Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate’s strategy for assisting a person “never to be disappointed” is to keep that person in a constant state of disappointment. That’s what it’s trying to do to you, right? Good catch. Do you have an R/L practice? The Mentor is a way better choice for internal conversation than is that nasty voice in the head.  Gassho

 

Ego said I can’t be 8, this is personality type that really bothers me in others. Looking can see own karma of need to control situations/resources/others and trouble ego has with people in power who it does not trust. Wow leads me to question process of deciding ‘I’ don’t like someone.R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, now, that just seems downright intelligent, doesn’t it? Questioning the conversation in the head that one has been programmed to look to for information is a very wise thing to do. The other very wise thing to do is to become adept at recognizing and learning to own projections. It’s a wide-open path to freedom! Gassho

 

I experience difficulty being vulnerable. Conditioning gets me to look around the discomfort by talking me into self-improvement. Whatever needs or challenges I’m having are still there, but in theory will be gone shortly! Seems only presence can meet needs, express vulnerability, self-improvement is the proverbial dog-chasing-tail run around. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh, what a perfect image for egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate’s self-improvement hoaxes—a dog chasing its tail. That’s it. Lots of movement going nowhere. Thank you for that. Gassho

 

So hard to acknowledge vulnerability. Defensive instead. Ego makes it all or nothing. Self- reliant or submissive. Looking to Life opens a middle way that's far safer and wider than what conditioning presents. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Uh huh! It’s so hard for ego to acknowledge vulnerability, and “coincidentally” only ego “feels” it. Does ego really feel vulnerability? Sort of but not really. Ego is an illusion. Its focus is to get the attention it needs to appear real. It has a long list of “Oh, no, you can’t go there/do that” items for us to avoid. With awareness practice, we realize those are the very places we want to charge into, dismantle completely, and sift through with that proverbial fine-tooth comb. We could think of it as road clearing, opening up that safe, wide Middle Way. Gassho

 

Fiercly independent - resist being controlled! Much rather assist than accept assistance - gives ego illusionary sense of control/superiority.   Seeing how surrendering process of control allows/ makes room for accepting assistance from Life.  There is no difference between assisting and being assisted! It's all the same thing! All Life's generosity. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now THAT is something marvelous to realize, isn’t it? We can extrapolate that to “everything is all Life’s generosity.” Why waste a moment of our precious lives in duality when Life so generously gives us ALL? Gassho

 

Me in spades here. I am duped into conflating control/justice for compassion. I am bamboozled by these thought/feelings/efforts from ego. I feel it stronger than any other similar pulls. This drive is not compassion and is often even violence. Rarely requested and needed by ego for my storyline/view of life.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Would it be more accurate to say, “… and needed by ego for ego’s storyline/view of life”? When egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate puts together—unobserved—opinions/conclusions/ assumptions that don’t go together at all, we can find ourselves in places we truly never intended to inhabit. “I am prejudiced against prejudiced people.” “I hate people who are hateful to innocent people.” We can get duped into failing to notice that what ego wants us to believe is compassion is actually hatred and bigotry. That’s a powerful insight. Thank you. Gassho

 

I thrive when challenging the opposition at work. I hold strong opinions about fairness, see compromise as weakness, and I'm quick to anger at perceived injustice.  I rarely focus on relationship building aspects of the job.  It seems like a waste of time!  Seeing that I'm avoiding vulnerability to rejection. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

When we step back enough to see what we’re doing, through the eyes of clarity rather than ego created assumptions, we’re freed up to make other choices. Our belief in our own view of “fairness” can leave us oblivious to what fairness or injustice might look like for someone else. We used to have a monk who realized he wanted to be able to act out like a two-year-old and be universally adored as he did so. Needless to say, he had zero tolerance for anyone else who acted like a two-year-old! These are extremely useful awarenesses, aren’t they?  Gassho

 

"Concern with justice and protection of others"/ "weak is unworthy." Helpful to see side by side. Underlying the concern for others who are vulnerable can be contempt, rather than compassion, because of ego's self-contempt for the "weakness of" needing. Reaching out is sometimes reinforcing distance. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Talk about a powerful insight! We would all be well-served to take in that process and apply it to whatever content we’re currently encountering. Very helpful. Thank you. Gassho

 

I use humor to protect my vulnerability; I can appear capable, strong, knowledgeable and in control while authentically feeling hurt and afraid.  I have a hard time asking for and accepting help from others.  I am afraid of intimacy so I control how close I allow others to come. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suspect you’re paying attention to see where and how egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is framing your experience? A couple of places to look: “authentically” is often used to describe what a person has been conditioned to think and feel. “Hurt and afraid” are not experiences of “Authenticity;” those are ego states. Conditioning would have you frame “capable, strong, and knowledgeable” as ways you “appear,” implying those traits are phony “masks” covering “how you really are.” I’m betting exactly the opposite is true. As to the rest, I’m going to phrase it as, “ego doesn’t want you to ask for or accept help from others and ego is terrified of intimacy so controls you to keep others at a distance.” Ego wants isolation and control; I doubt you do. Right?  Gassho

 

What just arose: there is impatience with indecisiveness or inaction, but not with others, with myself! Wow, so good to see. Believing the story that not making a decision is not OK, "I" should be different." Dropping story that is not true!! Freedom!! R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

So good to see and even better to drop! There is freedom in dropping every ego story, isn’t there? ‘Tis the path to liberation. Good job! Gassho

 

Tough, absorbing physical pain without complaint (when “I” competes with others to be stronger, endure longer) and yet afraid of emotional hurt and reject others first (hence, being the one to end all relationships). Yep, sums up 8ness I experience. Feels lonely and painful, the opposite of ego’s promises. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

All of ego’s promises are hollow/lies and will end in loneliness and suffering if ego can arrange it! THAT is perhaps the greatest of all the insights we receive through practicing awareness. Realizing this, we can begin the practice of ending our lonely/painful relationship with egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate in conditioned mind, choosing instead the peace and freedom of thisherenow. Gassho

 

Omg.  I think I'm in "8" energy waaaay more often than I thought.  I.e. not wanting to be controlled, "sparring" as a way of communicating/making contact, the strong survive.  It's good to see I'm not just a "2" but am all.  No boundaries.  It all passes through.  Gassho.  R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

“No boundaries. It all passes through.” And we, being present, get to be at choice about which and how much of any quality/characteristic is expressed. The choice comes from choosing to allow Life to live us fully rather than supporting egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate to put up barriers and blockades. Very good! Gassho

 

I notice a voice dismissing people who are labelled weak and ineffectual.  People have also said that I’m all or nothing - now I see what they mean.  But the judgement is really directed at me and won’t tolerate those parts that are vulnerable and don’t meet conditioning’s standard.  R/L Gassho

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yet we can see it’s not either/or, yes? The voices dismiss others AND you. That insight is one we can apply to every one of ego’s “judgments.” “Judgments” is in quotes because it’s important for us to remember that egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate does not care about any of the issues it yammers on about. It cares about attention, and suffering gets attention. Gassho

 

Use control as the trigger to see my being identified. Feel it in my gut; tension; I'm right. Just breathe, melt and let it all go. Relax. It's all an illusion. All is okay. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

We can all record that and listen often! “Just breathe, melt and let it all go, relax, it’s all an illusion, all is okay.” Repeat that ten times and egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate doesn’t stand a chance! Gassho

 

I see type 8 in my tendency to attempt control by being decisive, taking charge, and particularly, by organizing and ordering my personal space. Trying to organize and “manage” everyone (including myself) and all experiences can be exhausting, engender resistance, thwart connection, and keep me from being present. Wow. R/L.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Love that “Wow.” We can feel the freedom, can’t we? “Wow” is followed by “aaahhhhh”….. yes? Gassho

 

Why is everyone else so controlling? (sarcastic projection) Secondly, it just dropped in that I have bought into a story about being “too slow” or indecisive (anti-8). The heart tells me I am learning to be comfortable at my own pace. Project joy has been helpful for this.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good! I’m projecting the Heart is communicating with you via the Mentor. True? Recording and Listening, the Mentor, and now Project Joy—our cups not only runneth over, they’re emptying! Gassho

 

Recorded and Listened to the mantra “I do not CONTROL the outcome.”  Egocentric karmic condition self/hate argues back in forth to control more, then loosen up.  Armor myself by preparing for the worst, leaving others to doubt my true feelings/intentions.  Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate would rather avoid some situations, than be bothered by them. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Great point. Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is VERY invested in certain situations and works hard to avoid others. That in itself is worthy of deep scrutiny, isn’t it? Why this and not that? How am I being manipulated through what attention is drawn to and directed away from? When am I meant to be unconscious and what am I supposed to be “present” for—like beatings! Isn’t practice exciting? Gassho

 

Fight characteristics were survival; rebelling against my controlling mother.  Holding the world at bay so I don’t suffer because interactions with others reveal that there is something wrong with me.  Information is received as criticism, to be met with aggression or avoidance.  Responding in anger is often an initial reaction. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

An encouragement: It’s illuminating to observe the karmic reactions without falling for the stories egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate offers as “reasons.” We needed to survive childhood; ego stepped in to take advantage of the “decisions” we made in youthful lack of awareness. We don’t need to “justify” conditioning. When we just see “how” we’re being controlled currently, we can bring conscious awareness to what we choose NOW. For instance, I’m conditioned to react in anger. Is that what I choose? If the answer is no, I can take steps to “dismantle” that reaction. See what I mean? Gassho

 

Characteristics of an 8 are put forth by egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate as desirable and why I’m a failure. Conditioning says, fake it because you’ll never be like that. The push to look externally for how to be usually leads to abandoning the part who is being picked on. R/L Gassho

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Absolutely! There’s the historical and current modus operandi of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. We learned long ago to abandon ourselves to secure the favor of the “other” that would protect us. We are deeply conditioned to that orientation. We abandoned ourselves to torture then, and we will still unless we get into thisherenow, the only “place” from which the suffering human being can be embraced.  Gassho

 

Wow, I’m surprised. These seem to make me an Eight in addition to a One. Control, fighting injustice, tendency toward impulsiveness and anger, sparring, all-or-nothing--all big karmic aspects of “me.” Grateful to see how, as with much karma, Practice has brought them into awareness and diminished their power. Gassho R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

That’s the deal, isn’t it? Oh, there’s that karma “I am heir to,” and that and that and that. With this broader perspective, we can recognize as conditioned “thoughts, words, and deeds” all sorts of ways of being egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate would like us to believe are “just how you are.” Nay, nay. Those are just how egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is, and all of it can be safely dropped in order to choose thisherenow. WE don’t need to fix or improve, we can simply redirect attention to presence. Not only easier, it’s also happier! Gassho

 

Eight process shows up with romantic relationships and an unwillingness to give up story about independence: I take care of and fulfill myself without need for others. Also appears with important projects/deadlines: take over to ensure everything goes ˜right’ way. R/L reveals in vulnerability, ego turns to illusion of control. Gassho.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Funny, isn’t it, that a person told “I can take care of and fulfill myself without a need for others” would even have romantic relationships. Relationship. That sort of implies longer than a few hours! We get to see how at odds the “I don’t need anyone or anything” story is with “I’ve got to control everything so I’ll be okay.” If I’m so okay, why do I need to control anything? Ah, a rich mine to mine, eh? Gassho

 

Abandoned as a child and again as a young adult, I decided that hurt and love always went together. A romantic and dreamy notion in the movies but not in reality - I shut down, put on the emotional armor and have lived in semi-isolation ever since. Still hurting! Gassho R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Time to drop that story? Anyone reading along with this class has a lot of information that “abusive” and “childhood” are redundant. Growing up is a miserable deal in the best of circumstances. Turning our lives over to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate to perpetuate that story is truly a waste of a perfectly wonderful human incarnation. The salient part of that sentence is “turning our lives over to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate…” because that’s what’s happening. Do you know the expression, “It’s never too late to have a happy childhood”? That’s a true statement! That kid/young adult got a rotten deal. Okay. Make it up to him/her. Make from this moment on the very best life experience any human being has ever had!!! How can it be anything but colluding with the devil to keep that person in isolation and suffering for a lifetime when a beautiful alternative is available? Gassho

 

 “My” competency keeps me at a distance from others “less” competent. “I” can help you but at an emotional distance. Better than, less than creates separation, I don’t need you, you need me. Can see vulnerability hiding behind the competence, I don’t need you because I can do it myself. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suspect you’re seeing how marvelously that story feeds ego, yes? Ego is the illusion of being separate from Life. As long as ego has a person believing its stories of “I don’t need anyone,” ego is secure in its illusory existence at the center of an imaginary universe. As soon as we get it that ego is an illusion, and that we live in a nonseparate reality, ego is, as they say, toast. Gassho

 

I feel cared for (trusted) when people will fight with me. I'm kind,  forgiving,  physically tough. I admire take charge types, but struggle making decisions and worry about others opinions. I'm more emotionally available and vulnerable than typical for 8, but am regularly hurt emotionally (feel unappreciated). R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

So those are good places to practice with, aren’t they? You can practice appreciating “you” and others. You can explore beliefs and assumptions (and voices!) around “making mistakes.” You can follow the projections (and conversations in conditioned mind) back to stories about “what other people think.” That’s very helpful for your practice, isn’t it? Gassho

 

Hard to see in myself, but this is supposedly where my type evolves.   Fear of hurt, rejection may be part of why I isolate, have to look at decline in sexual activity as saying “no” before I’m perceived by others as undesirable. Gassho R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

You can see the “stories” in all that, can’t you? Looking to conditioned mind for information rather than being present for Life to inform? How about if you begin to be open to seeing these 8-ish qualities in you as you let the voices of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate take a rest in the backseat! Gassho

 

Controlled by or indebted to anyone are big issues for me.  Major money issues (fairness, usery, manipulation), & sex (as manipulation tool).  Solid type 1, but these type 8 money/ manipulation/ control issues are conditioning’s almost assured win every time. Could use some direction in working with it.  R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suspect you’re doing the most important thing we can do in working to free ourselves from the grip of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate—you’re paying attention. As a specific practice step, you might play with this: When you get triggered (the voices of ego start to go crazy over some perceived “injustice”), stop right there and turn attention to the breath. You feel the adrenalin pump through, everything tighten, and the scramble in the head start, and you just stop. You breathe as you observe the reaction. Then ask yourself, ”How do I know what I’m conditioned to believe is happening is what’s happening?” You keep attention on the breath as you wait for clarity/insight to drop in for you. Gassho

 

Seeing the 8: the imperious way that ego's "JUSTICE!" bent can express.. Also see the 8 in the way that I push through fear sometimes - though I never saw that before - I thought I was leaning on awareness practice to overcome resistance! Maybe actually it was egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate takeover?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

If I were you, I’d want to do a bunch more paying attention before reaching any conclusions such as the one being suggested. Turning to presence, to the clarity of the moment, to move beyond fear is not the same as being taken over by egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, AND only egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate would want you to think those are the same thing. One way to explore the difference is to notice the “tone” of the two options. Are you being goaded, pushed, made to feel bad, harangued? That would be ego’s way of “getting through fear.” Do you feel like you’re present, supported, encouraged? That would be turning attention away from ego/fear and to Life. Gassho

 

Noticing I can be 8 with staying quiet, not sharing, holding back any emotional expression, fleeing or avoiding situations, staying “small” and isolating this human from other people. Egocentrickarmicconditioning-selfhate says others hold power of my self-worth - they can reject me or cause me emotional pain. Results: no authentic connection, suffering

++++++++++++++++++++++

That’s an important set of beliefs to see through, AND it might be helpful to let go the idea that those are 8 reactions. The conversation egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate has you in, from “staying quiet” to “others can cause emotional pain,” is typical ego-maintaining horse pucky! Rather than try to sort out what all that is or where it comes from, perhaps just focus on recognizing the conversation and dropping it as soon as you see it. Get attention back to thisherenow! Oh, and get an R/L practice, please. Gassho

 

Egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate represses 8’s passion saying energy is something to fear & controls emotion externally and internally. Controlling/Avoiding the energy leads to acting in inauthentic ways that then gets judged! Seeing that believing rejection is possible IS being identified with ego. “Know” this but getting it on deeper level. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

EXACTLY! That’s what continuing to practice awareness makes available to us—we “know” and we keep “getting it” on a deeper level. Yes! “Believing that rejection is possible IS being identified with ego.” As soon as we get into that kind of conversation in conditioned mind, we can know we’re identified with ego. The other great insight is that we do what the voices of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate tell us to do, and then we’re beaten up for doing it! Gassho

 

See rebel subpersonality defending by fighting back, getting angry at authority figures. See subpersonality manipulated by egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate: it projects onto “authorities” and I’m fighting ghosts. See strong “I don’t need anybody!” used to block connection. Connection/need are different, so inkling that original pain of a need unmet still repressed. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Seeing clearly how egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate manipulates people to do its bidding is a powerful insight. An encouragement: It’s not necessary to figure out all that stuff. You know what egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is and what it does. That’s enough. That’s plenty to allow you to step right on past ego’s nonsense and get to center. Any “original pain” or “unmet need” will be taken care of when you come to center. You’re in the home stretch! Gassho

 

Egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate protected her from rejection by getting her to reject herself first. Belief is this armors her against rejection so she never will be hurt. Don’t need anybody else anyways. No question blocked in ability to connect to other people or to love, except that that isn’t always true. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate only ever protects itself. Period. Getting a person to identify with it and do its dirty work? Certainly. People are programmed by the voices to believe rejecting protects them from rejection. What a coup for ego! A person is “protected” from rejection by “others” through living in rejection inside their own head! Never be hurt? NO! ALWAYS hurt. Being hurt moment-by-moment by the hateful voices in the head and willing for it because of a belief that “I’m being protected from hurt.” Can you see it? It is a true YIKES situation. Time to end the reign of terror! Get “her” free from such evil. Gassho

 

Egocentrickarmicconditioning would love to be an eight. Taking charge, making decisions quickly has been something to aspire to-taking action and inspiring others is how it thinks I should be. It also tells me it’s impossible to get there. (sigh! Yawn!) drop the voices, don’t believe any of it. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

There you go! Besides which, if you didn’t have all those qualities readily available to you, you wouldn’t have any idea what those voices are talking about. HA! Take that, hateful voices! You get to be any way you choose! Gassho

 

Especially identify with concern for justice, need for control, impulsiveness, and difficulty in being vulnerable.  Interesting how some of these characteristics are often overshadowed by the judgement/need for perfection of a One, making actions difficult or miserable.  So helpful to see and recognize conditioning's characteristics through the Enneatypes!  R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++

You make a very important point: Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate can “switch outfits” faster than we can say Holy Speedos! Here comes an 8 attitude, followed quickly by a 5 reaction, which dovetails into a 2 perspective, and then the 1 comes in to deal with the 4 tendency. We just aren’t that monolithic “I” the voices so want us to believe we are, are we? Yea! Freedom to be. Gassho

 

 

Since being promoted to manager, I encounter 8 qualities way more than I used to. And I have been believing these 8 qualities appeared because I had transcended my other qualities, and this was my “real” self. Hello 8! I’m looking forward to transcending these, too. Thank you! Gassho R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No quality having a life of its own inside our life is one we want to support, and we want to be able to avail ourselves of all qualities should the moment call them forth. Mastery not mastered, yes? Gassho

 

Belief that if I don't admit to myself or others my vulnerability, it does not exist,  I am in control of my vulnerability vs. vulnerability is what's there. hard to ask for help. Told dependency is one-way ticket to pain.  Life says “ jump in the water is fine! “ Gassho R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jump in, the water is fine. Now there’s a message we can all take to heart, isn’t it? All that control stuff is an illusion so we might as well practice our float. Good to keep in mind, as the book title reminds us, Pain Is Inevitable; Suffering Is Optional. Gassho

 

Recently had an Eight moment--took charge rather than acquiescing, stated what I wanted and expected. It felt powerful, exhilarating, refreshingly unusual, seemed appropriate and effective, but--I also thought it happened only because of stressful circumstances. Egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate talking? Will continue to explore.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You see, this is where the Mentor comes in so handy. We can grab that recorder and have a little heart-to-heart that lets us sort out “who’s talking.” The way you describe it, it sounds as if you were responding to the energy called for in the moment. Here’s what we can all practice: What happens, happens. We entertain no voices attempting a post mortem. We pay close attention and see if Life drops in any insights. You will either receive guidance or you won’t. What we can’t do is learn anything. Ego wants to tell us what we did wrong and start making rules for the future. None of that! Sully, I think that’s the chap who landed the plane in the Hudson River, was breaking all the rules when he did that, but he saved a bunch of lives by listening to Life guidance rather than “shoulds” in conditioned mind. Yes? Maybe an “8” moment? Gassho

 

I'm looking at how control shows up around expressing my wants for scheduling. If others don't agree, I notice strong energy in my body and stories of anger possibly rejection. I suspect this keeps me from speaking up more often. It drops in that the mentor will listen. Gassho. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate specializes in putting people in dualistic “situations” (the dualities are always imaginary) in which one either starts yelling at people or clams up. Those are never our only choices. When we’re present we can allow Life to speak through us, giving us access to “that which is most compassionate for all.” Gassho

 

Type 8 shows up as I'll pay my way thank you! Do not want to be indebted to anyone. It's tough and isolating and gets the opposite of the desired connection. See the possibility of generosity and being authentic. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometimes generosity is allowing others to be generous, isn’t it? Great insight. Gassho

 

Most closely relate to the qualities of independence and resistance to being controlled by or indebted to anyone.  Looked at situations where these characteristics were perceived as superiority and led to separation.  Seeing through projections and taking things personally.    Everyday giving thanks for “compassionate comprehension that dissipates delusion”. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amen to that! We keep paying attention and we get to “see through” it all. That language is so important in the process. We’re paying attention. We’re seeing. As we get clearer, through compassionate attending, the delusion we’ve been seeing through simply falls away. Clarity dissipates the delusion. It’s a marvelously kind process, isn’t it? Gassho

 

Armoring myself against (projected) rejection, I listen to egocentrickarmicconditioning's litany of ways I'm superior, until that doesn't work, then the ways I'm inferior.  Watching how this plays out with objects as well as with other people.  No difference.  Egocentric karmic conditioning doesn't like me being equal with all.  R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No, it does not. There’s no duality in equality. There’s no either/or to drag a person back and forth through, inflicting suffering at each end of the pendulum swing. Seeing from center, it’s obvious that we’re all us, isn’t it? Superior/inferior? No thanks. Great catch. Gassho

 

I see my 8 in a difficulty accepting anything - kindness, money, from people. In moments of extreme duress - death of a loved one for example - I am stoic until someone offers genuine compassion or kindness. Is this control or not feeling worthy?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, you’re going to need to explore that question for yourself, don’t you think? Only you are going to be able to do the close scrutiny that will reveal just how egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is controlling you in this particular set of circumstances. I’ll encourage you, as others, that having an R/L practice and access to the Mentor’s wisdom can assist mightily in our journey. Gassho

 

I now know that the 8 in my behaviour is not me! Yesterday I was, as usual, losing my patience with someone and I heard in my head "wow, my heart is racing,  my face is flushed and¦ it's not me!" And I didn't lose it!! R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lots of big energy for a happy dance or quick jog a few times around the block, huh? What’s wonderful to see about that is how present you were, yes? You were right there with you as it was all unfolding, and you were able to make a conscious choice. Talk about big! Gassho

 

I find reasons not to engage with people to avoid emotional entanglement. If friends get too close, I pull back. Ironically, when I let go and just be with people as myself, close relationships form while I'm not paying attention. I'm not sure what the lesson is in that.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In a conversation in conditioned mind? Perhaps you’re paying attention in the moment and not to ego? Sounds as if it could be…. Are you considering an R/L practice and finding a close friend in the Mentor? Gassho

 

My husband is control.  Egocentrickarmiconditioning/self-hate keeps me in conversation of the emptyness of control is not love.  The duality of stay or leave, past thoughts to future thoughts, pulled back & forth.  Fear - don't know what to do. Mentor: my heart needs to give and receive love all the time. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then do that! If your heart needs to give and receive love all the time, do that! You don’t need a husband to be different in order to give and receive love all the time—that giving and receiving is within your ability to choose. Fear, past and future thinking, is what happens when we look to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate rather than the Mentor/Heart. You can stay or go as you choose, certainly, but you’re never going to find clarity in a controlling ego lodged inside conditioned mind! Know what I mean? Gassho

 

My 8 characteristics: Desire to control everything in my life, which is very limiting.  I have difficulty with expressing my anger and other needs for fear of being vulnerable.  Constantly feeling that life should be better for everyone. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It can be helpful to begin to see the difference in some beliefs and assumptions egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate has most people “accepting.” Ego likes to call everything it wants “needs.” If we want something, we’re likely to hear messages of, “You’re just being selfish,” but if we need something, well, that’s different. Needs are important. For that reason we want to carefully sort through to see if what’s going on with us is a need—food, water, shelter, sleep—are a want—everything else! Also, “life should be better for everyone” is a thought not a “feeling.” Feelings are things like heavy, tense, and tight. Depressed, sad, angry, afraid are labels, thoughts. Paying close attention to your relationship with “needs” and “feelings” will shed some light on how you’re being controlled by egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. Gassho

 

When identified with 8, my patience for my partners indecisiveness and always living in the "should have, could have" tense, is very short and compassion for him minimal to non-existent.  Awareness practice allows me to find unconditional love once triggered by ego red flags.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Very good—for both of you, huh? I’m guessing you’re able to let off some steam in your conversations with the Mentor? Having a counselor/best friend available 24/7 to listen and encourage us has saved many a relationship! Gassho

 

Conditioning whispers which attributes it would like me to imagine are me.  It makes me not like the attributes that really are me. I am so glad I can see the difference now. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Those voices of egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate are whispering-in-the-ear devils, aren’t they? Clearly you know well the awareness practice “truth” that ego’s faux world of duality is the “world of opposites.” What the voices say is always the opposite of what’s true. Great catch! Gassho

 

Seeing 8ness clearly in how I like to prove my capability and not require help from others.  Have brought much awareness here but still challenging to admit vulnerability and accept support as if it makes me inherently deficient. Writing and R/L this reminds me that's not true at all. Gassho

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Everything in Life supports everything else, doesn’t it? If we don’t let ego frame everything in opposites—if you accept help it means you’re vulnerable and incapable—we can see the interconnectedness of Life we are expressions of. The tree “needs” the earth, water, and sun. We certainly don’t see it as incapable for not having its “own” stash of earth, water, and sun, do we? The only thing we’re pretty sure is “inherently deficient” is egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate, and even it is an expression of Life! Gassho

 

Built such an armor of control that ended up suffocating me. Longing for love and connection. By avoiding suffering protecting myself from others, my only relationship was with EKC=death. I now know there is another way of living, and I am taking the risk of living instead of dying.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Excellent! I notice there’s no R/L after your response. If you want some mind-bogglingly supportive support along your path to love and connection, get a Recording and Listening practice and journey along with the wisdom, love, and compassion that IS the Mentor. Gassho

 

Control, justice, sparring, impatience, impulsivity, all/none thinking- all very familiar and were pretty useful as a social worker. Expressing anger and vulnerability, not so familiar and definitely not strengths. It's like I put an 8 cape over my 4 shroud and carried on. 8 was effective; 4 not so much.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yet that 8-ness didn’t include expressing anger? I sense though that was a good bit of at least very strong annoyance and vexation in your daily life? And, yes, not wishing to be vulnerable would definitely put some starch in that 8 cape. Gassho

 

8-ishness: a compensation for a misconception that "I" am vulnerable, clueless, incompetent, and weak and thereby need rescuing or "I" will be humiliated, taken advantage of, left behind and ridiculed. So much energy spent to validate and then control a delusion! Why can't "I" stop?!? Ahhhh "I" can't.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, of course, “I” can’t stop because “I” doesn’t want to. That’s really important to get. Ego doesn’t want to end suffering. Yes? Now, are you saying that misconception (vulnerable, clueless, incompetent, weak, needing to be rescued, etc.), is your experience of being at 8? It certainly is an egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate story, but I do question how 8-ish it is. Gassho

 

Am I a winner ? Who's the loser?.  The duality of snarky satisfactions and nauseating fears, unmasks ego. Creeped out by my inner Trump. Conscious shift; compassion for all, empathy rather than judgment. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, paying attention to the “snarky duality of ego” unmasks ego, yes? Disidentifying from the creepy conversation in conditioned mind inspires you to shift attention to the compassion of thisherenow. True? Not sure where the 8 is in this, but the shift is a powerful one. Gassho

 

I see how the 8 in ego pulls away from my husband when he reaches out, rather than feel vulnerable.  "It's ok, it's ok"I tell myself as I begin to soften.  R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Present, mentoring, reassuring the person rather than allowing egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate to continue its pursuit of misery. This is very good, isn’t it?  Gassho

 

I can relate to not wanting to show vulnerability especially when I feel rejection. I take an all or nothing approach to work, relationships and projects. I'm decisive, independent and I follow through. This keeps the human separate, wanting connection yet not trusting it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You’re clearly paying close attention and, before we go further, I will encourage you that having the assistance of a wise Mentor will turn that scrutiny into clarity at a rapid rate. For instance, there’s no problem with being decisive, independent, and following through, is there? The suffering happens in a story in the head about how you have to be and how “others” aren’t. Isn’t that so? There’s nothing about decisive, independent, and following through that will keep a person separate—ego is what adds the element of separation. Know what I mean? If along with the previously mentioned qualities you are kind, appreciative, and respectful, a lot of folks will be ready to elect you to the highest of offices! Gassho

 

Armored myself against rejection from authentic connection with others for so long, the authentic is buried and I no longer know what it is. With others, ego is always there first and I forget myself. Practising with breath, love and gratitude to bring me back, even if for short time. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, as I’m sure you’re already noticing, those “homecomings” happen more quickly and last longer. One ego lie I want to ask you to consider: Clearly “the authentic” is not so buried you no longer know what it is. You’re here. You’re doing awareness practice. Authenticity is what brought you to practice and is supporting you as you continue. Get your eyes on that, don’t stop paying attention to that, and soon you will know just how fine you are! Gassho

 

Identify with wanting to be in control, independant and not indebted to anyone.  Again seeing how egocentrickarmicconditioning/selfhate makes some Types seem more desirable than others...7's good, 8's bad... revealing the way  that ego's judgement and criticism of self and others maintains the illusion of separation .Gassho. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What a great catch! Someone earlier talked about the ego voice whispering in the ear how “the way you are is not good/the way that person is, is good.” We can go along for a long time suffering with that horse pucky before we see it. Good to see it, huh? These are qualities, not indictments! We’re not attempting an ego program of self-improvement, we’re being aware in order to be present and at choice. Gassho

 

I see using control via physical separation to keep me 'safe' from others who criticize, belittle, or make fun of me and also those that drain me.  This 'safe' bubble becomes so large I often miss out on the connection, love, generosity, and compassion that is offered by others. R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And I bet you’ve been practicing awareness long enough to be clear that all the “safe” bubble is “protecting” is egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, and that only egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate criticizes, belittles, makes fun of, and drains you, true? If the only negativity we ever encountered was what came from other people, we would have nothing to be concerned about. But we hear negativity so constantly inside the head that we become convinced it’s everywhere. Time to get a great big “Life pin” and deflate that bubble! Gassho

 

Seeing story that Eights are to be avoided. I resent and feel bullied by an Eight who has a  powerful position in my life.  I envy this person's apparent self-confidence. I don't much like Eights -- probably means I am one. Am exploring this with Mentor.  R/L

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Perhaps an “inner” Eight? It is true that the qualities we most dislike in others are the ones we’re not allowed to have in ourselves. Of course we do have them, but we must suppress them in order to avoid even more judgment and criticism from egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate. Not, as we’ve all noticed, that attempting to do ego’s bidding saves us from the self-hate. But we try! Yes, the Mentor will assist in bringing clarity.  Gassho

 

 

Ego invokes the fear of rejection, which means shutting down instead of opening up. Looking at this fear from outside of it (instead of identifying with it) reveals it as a parasitic meme. Vulnerability is opening up to let Life in: healthy wholeness.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate as a parasitic meme—yes! Well described. We have the opportunity to choose healthy wholeness instead. In choosing Life, we are never vulnerable. Gassho

 

Never saw impatience with indecisiveness or inaction through this lens.  It provides distance enough to understand it’s a system operating on everyone rather than something wrong with me after all these years of practice.  What a welcome relief!  R/L Gassho

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes! What you’re pointing out for all of us is a process of buying into ego’s “pet obsessions.” We can see that egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate is a “system operating on everyone,” but these two or three “flaws” are really real and they really are what’s wrong with me. Actually, no! All the “something wrong/not enough” crapola is just that, and there’s nothing real or personal about it. What a welcome relief indeed! Gassho

 

Seeing Eight-like control-mania at work after a long day of vacation sightseeing with adult daughters. Yelling at my cranky companions,  “Get over it! You have no resilience! “ Ego had me so intolerant (afraid) of my own “weakness “ (normal fatigue) that I couldn’t even allow it in “my own. “ R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Ah, ego is no respecter of even our most cherished relationships, is it? Those kids? Weaklings! They need to buck up and get on! Good to let everyone off the hook. Gassho

 

This week I saw how wanting to be seen as strong kept me from connection. "I" was hiding out. The Mentor encouraged me to express vulnerability to my friends and in doing so, this human received unconditional love from the outside and inside! My body went from rigidity to fluidity. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

What a lovely transition—from rigidity to fluidity—all accomplished by choosing to protect the human being instead of protecting egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate. Great choice! Gassho

 

The first few weeks, egocentrickarmiccondition/selfhate told me “people who wrote in they didn’t see that enneatype in themselves aren’t trying. “  I nodded along.  I am humbled.  8 has been hard to find.  So far, I see a tendency to judge who “deserves” my compassion, even in just seeing a headline. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

“Humbled” is a marvelous place to be, isn’t it? Our greatest spiritual heroes showed us humility at every turn. That’s the quality that keeps us open, keeps us looking, keeps us remembering that “I don’t know,” and we don’t even want “I” to know! Well done. Gassho

 

I am an 8 when egocentrickarmicconditioning-self hate takes charge. It will challenge supervisors, will attempt to wrestle power and control. It wants to be rule. It is mistrusting having been burned in so many relationships.  Struggle to discern when is it ego or a sincere me who needs control. Gassho R/L. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh, my, that’s actually an easy one: There is no such thing as a “sincere me who needs control.” Control is an illusion and so is “me.” That’s the best part of what we get to see by practicing awareness. “Me” or “I” is not one thing but an illusion of a “one thing” created when an incalculable number of processes interacting simultaneously make it seems as if there’s a constant “me” “doing” “this.” (Lots of quotes and all necessary.) For those of us choosing freedom from suffering, the wise move always is to go with “it’s ego wanting control.” Gassho

 

8’s conditioning has need to control personal space. Perceives privacy as being infringed upon; becomes irritated; others in the way. Falling for this bamboozle causes difficulties interacting. Noticing this, so can breathe, let-go into Authenticity’s compassionate presence and lovingkindness. Either let it be or when possible ask politely for space. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

“… ask politely for space.” What a notion! That sort of thing is absolutely foreign to egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, and egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate wants to keep it that way. In an irritated conversation in the head that precludes interaction, that’s ego’s chosen method. Breathing, turning attention to presence, gives us that compassionate option. Much happier, isn’t it? Gassho

 

Yes to (attempts to) control people, physical and emotional environments to perpetuate the illusion of safety. Yes to independence and anti-dependence. Yes to decisive leadership and quick action, which can also include impulsivity. Yes to championing the underdog/less fortunate. Didn’t realize this human exhibits these “8”  tendencies. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I know I keep coming to this, but it is good to see, isn’t it? Conditioning likes for us to have two ways of talking about things—the way you are and the way I am. You tend to exhibit unfortunate traits, such as controlling and impulsive, whereas, for me, it’s just a matter of tending to like an orderly environment, part of being a decisive leader. When we get a description from someone with no investment in protecting anyone’s ego, we get much clearer, fairer mirrors to look into. None of this has anything to do with “typing” ourselves; it has to do with using various mirrors that allow a more comprehensive picture. We hear that in a nonseparate reality we are at one with all that is, however we’re deeply programmed to believe ego when it screams that we are “this” and not “that,” and therein lies what’s wrong with us! Gassho

 

I am an 8. The description brought back what feels like distant memories. Behaviors that feel less familiar since I started practicing with Sangha. Seeing how all the types play out in me. Feel grateful and affirmed in how practice reduces the clinging to personality and frees the soul. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Having seen all of that, you can safely let go of identifying as an 8, yes? Those identifies really don’t help anything other than ego. Recognizing when we’re thinking or behaving in particular ways that have been identified as 8 or Aries or first born or New Yorker or SJ or future thinker or whatever can assist to bring us to conscious awareness, but that’s the end of it! Technically, we’re not an anything; as a famous Buddhist noted, “From the beginning no-thing is.” Very relaxing. Gassho

 

I am fiercely independent and recognize that I resist being indebted to anyone.  I am frequently standing up for the underdog. I think I can connect with people well initially, but have difficulty maintaining close relationships/friendships.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

These are good tendencies to bring conscious, compassionate awareness to, aren’t they? These are not “identities” we want to “own.” They’re traits, characteristics, that’s all. They’re not personal, primarily because there’s no “person” to possess them. They’re more like habits. We notice habits we have and, very likely, begin a process of letting go the ones that are obviously not serving us. Then we begin to see that even with the ones that seem to serve us we want to be at choice rather than operating robotically. Gotta ask: Do you have an R/L practice? It’s a phenomenally efficient way to make one’s way into the clarity of center. Gassho

 

We both are good fighters. Conditioning trades blows, then retreats to both corners. I fear one of us will leave the ring.  egocentrickarmicconditioning/self-hate plays the righteousness and shame game. Through practice, Authenticity burns down the arena and there we are, aware of shared connection with All That Is. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh, so much happier! Ego loves to fight—you don’t have to be an Enneatype 8 to have an ego yanking you around from fight to fight. Eights tend to be more out in the open with the fighting, but fighting is fighting, whether everyone is smacked around or just the beleaguered authentic human being subjected to the battles. Gassho

 

Noticing a cycle that happens when I date: attachment to an outcome ("hope") -> disappointment (delay, setback) -> hurt feelings -> idea to reject the other person -> feel rush of power, "clarity," self-righteousness, desire to act immediately. I want to pause, sit with disappointment, let next right action arise, stay courageous and self-accepting. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, you are employing the snip, snip power of the karma nippers. This is very good. We often see karma depicted as a wheel. It rolls inexorably on through suffering, lifetime after suffering lifetime. Then, extraordinarily fortunate human beings practice and practice, and slowly the wheel comes to a halt. More lifetimes of fortunate people practicing and the wheel is now turning away from suffering, toward freedom. That’s the team you’re on, pausing, sitting, accepting, attentive for Life’s wisdom to guide you. You are ending ego’s urgent desire, snipping away and ending the karma. Well done!  Gassho

 

can really relate to desiring independence. freedom from suffering is the ultimate. working on behalf of those left out in our society is also something I've done for some years. conditioning tries to sell me on what society says is worthwhile, but I've been able to see through that by practicing being present.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Excellent. The 8 in me wants to ask if I can sell you on some capital letters for the beginning of sentences. Helps the one attempting to follow what people are saying so as to offer the best response available. Do you have a Recording and Listening practice? Gassho

 

As an Enneatype 6 (fear based) I didn’t expect to find much in common with Enneatype 8 (fearless leader). Did relate to a number of the 8 characteristics and found it truly reassuring that all of us have common touch points with each of the other Enneagram types. R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

It is reassuring to realize that we all have everything in common. (We are one.) It’s important to get that the characteristics of a particular enneatype are what we are NOT. Those are the dominant tendencies we are most conditioned to, but that’s not the same as that’s what we are. Here’s the importance of getting that: If I identify myself as a fear-based person, I will constantly be looking for fear. I’ll be seeing fear in all I say and do. Everything in my life will be run past the belief that who I am is a fear-based person. We don’t want to do that. See what I mean? We want to do what we are “designed” to do—avail ourselves of every human trait as the moment invites. Gassho

 

A habit is to think my partner and I are in a fight, that she's an 'enemy.' Authenticity doesn't think that, but ego wants to take it in that direction: be guarded, find fault, be "right." I have to go against that habit and actively remember Love. Love feels better!!! R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, Love does feel better, but not to ego. Love is death to the ego, and the ego is going to fight with everything it’s got to keep love at bay. That’s what you’ve been seeing, right? Ego doesn’t want love and only wants a partner in order to have at least one live-in enemy! You and your partner can gang up on egocentric karmic conditioning/self-hate, put it out of the relationship, by both of you bringing conscious awareness to choosing love. The good news though is that only one person in a relationship needs to make that choice.  Gassho

 

Okay I'm ALL eight traits too with more hidden underneath sevens addictions sprinkled by all. Egocentrickarmicconditioning/self hate cheers, leads to confusion, and says 5 lbs overweight too! Confusion is trigger to R/L. Mentor consoles to find good enough, balance, middle and grey. Redirect to selfcare to family to others.  R/L

+++++++++++++++++++++++

All that and 5 lbs. overweight too! Outrageous! Unacceptable! You might as well quit. Yes, do that. Quit. Quit paying any attention whatsoever to that nasty egocentric karmic conditioning/ self-hate! You have the Mentor. You and the Mentor can happily-ever-after embrace family and all beings. No reason not to!  Gassho